Evolution of language

[ben richardson]

How is it that the complex and elegant languages from antiquity have devolved into the relatively unstructured languages with have today? I have heard the contention that classical Latin for instance, was artificial in that it deviated significantly from the spoken vernacular of the same period. Was Homeric Greek equally artificial?

Shouldn't modern languages in fact be more complex given the pattern of evolution up to antiquity?   

[Chris Weimer]

Languages today are indeed complex, just in different ways. Complex prepositional phrases have replaced endings. Equally complex, but just different. It seems simpler to us, but I think because we use it more easily.

And yes, both Homeric Greek and Classical Latin were partially artificial. Any stylized language with proscribed rules are somewhat artificial compared to what the normal populace speaks. Just look at how frequent "me and sue went to the store" v. "Sue and I went to the store".

[ben richardson]

And yes, both Homeric Greek and Classical Latin were partially artificial. Any stylized language with proscribed rules are somewhat artificial compared to what the normal populace speaks.

Were they spoken at all or were they just used for writing?

Just look at how frequent "me and sue went to the store" v. "Sue and I went to the store".

Personally, I try to use 'me' as an objective pronoun only, but I understand what you are saying. I guess there will always be a discontinuity between the spoken vernaculars and their written counterparts. What becomes of modern languages with standard bodies dedicated to preserving their structure? Do they possess this same disconnect?

[Chris Weimer]

Were they spoken at all or were they just used for writing?

Homeric Greek was sung before written. Classical Latin was certainly spoken, but just not the language of the common people.

Personally, I try to use 'me' as an objective pronoun only, but I understand what you are saying. I guess there will always be a discontinuity between the spoken vernaculars and their written counterparts. What becomes of modern languages with standard bodies dedicated to preserving their structure? Do they possess this same disconnect?

I believe so, if recent observations are to be trusted. It's a slow process, however.

[Chris Chamberlain]

Has anyone heard of the Owen Barfield and his ideas about ( broadly speaking) the co-evolution of language and consciousness?

http://davidlavery.net/barfield
http://www.anitra.net/books/philosophy/barfield.html

[Tony]

This topic is currently discussed on a different board: http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23929.

[Chris Chamberlain]

A warning from the present:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7911645.stm


This sort of thing never ceases to astonish me.  What was stopping these biology-brained button-pushers from walking by foot along the university corridor to The Language Department, to first get up to speed on current knowledge and belief about linguistic development? 

It's not difficult or scary, it doesn't even tickle.


 

[Chris Weimer]

A warning from the present:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7911645.stm


This sort of thing never ceases to astonish me.  What was stopping these biology-brained button-pushers from walking by foot along the university corridor to The Language Department, to first get up to speed on current knowledge and belief about linguistic development? 

It's not difficult or scary, it doesn't even tickle.


 

No idea! I am always amazed when new claims come out like that.